Talk:Oily Water Technique
Deletion unnecessary Deva says it could just be a variation of the Hydration Technique. Isn't a jutsu a the Big Ball Rasengan a variation as well? And Deva only wants to delete because he did not create the page himself. --OmegaRasengan (talk) 18:52, September 21, 2011 (UTC) :I wasn't the user who originally added the deletion tag. I don't care who creates a page, I just think creating a new unnamed jutsu page is necessary as the oil can simply be mentioned of the hydrification technique page. I have to say I highly doubt that Deva wants to delete this article simply because he didn't create it himself, but either way, I still support the page's deletion. The information here can just as easily be represented on the Hydrification Technique page, especially as it hasn't been stated previously how the water involved in the technique acts, for all we know this might be the normal quality displayed by all of the users and not just the Second Mizukage. Blackstar1 (talk) 19:10, September 21, 2011 (UTC) :I agree with deletion for all we know, the water produced by the Hydriation tech is oily.Umishiru (talk) 19:29, September 21, 2011 (UTC) :Hydration Technique turns someone into a liquid form... liquid meaning in most cases water. Gaara said it's more "oil than liquid" and a suna shinobi said "the oily liquid". So far we know, the hydration technique allows to turn to liquid (as saw by Suigetsu and Mangetsu) so clearly this is a different case just for the fact that this ain't water. Althought people might said this is a variation of this Hydration Technique, i think this was a similar case with the "Dust Style: Detachement of a Primitive World" and "Dust Style: Dust Cone Technique". We can say this technique is different or it's the same, but until further explanations from Kishimoto comes, then this article shoould stay as it has differences with the hydration technique. --Kiba91 (talk) 20:27, September 21, 2011 (UTC) I'm the one who added the deletion tag. There was no need for a page over something that almost certainly an existing technique. It is still water, albeit an oily one. Unless we are later told that this is a different technique altogether, the page is quite unneeded. Skitts (talk) 21:55, September 21, 2011 (UTC) :I do not think that the page is necessary for now. If we get a name or more exposition on this, showing that this is indeed a different technique, we can simply add it again. Omnibender - Talk - 02:46, September 22, 2011 (UTC) ::I agree that for now, when we don't even have all the information on the Hydrification technique this article is unnecessary. We can wait and see, for all we know there could be no difference between what Capt'n Awesome or Suigetsu do or it could simply be a variant like Shikuro and Torune's use of bugs. A notation in the Hydrification should be fine (maybe even that's not necessary)--Cerez365™ 03:07, September 22, 2011 (UTC) i personaly think the page is unecessary and should be mentioned on the hydrification technique page or the mizukages abilities section. for all we know it could just be the hydrification technique being used to partially turn his body into that liquid. also it could be him just using water chakra like with the rubber rope thingy that dodai made or naruto cutting fuka's hair with his wind chakra in the anime. its probably just him using ater chakra to create this odd liquid, however this is all just specualtion either way i move that the page be deleted. (talk) 03:17, September 22, 2011 (UTC) The techniques seem very different to me: He doesn't turn himself into water. He doesn't move water around to amp his strength. He doesn't let attacks pass through his water body. He creates a liquid which destroys sand, and creating liquid is a fair bit different than hydrification. Probably related, but they're clearly different jutsu. ZeroSD (talk) 16:31, September 22, 2011 (UTC) :Has Mangetsu turned to water? He looks the same as the Second does now when using the technique. It's their clan's technique. Kishimoto has never said there was one set way of using it.--Cerez365™ 16:45, September 22, 2011 (UTC) ::At least partially, yes. Mangetsu's hand is melted in a way that a human hand can't, and a couple other parts of him look like they're dripping themselves rather than just having liquid dripping off of them. While it's a clan technique and there may be multiple ways of using it, hydrification technique still specifically refers to the transformation into water of which Mizukage has shown none of. We shouldn't just assume they're the same technique when they look and act differently. ZeroSD (talk) 16:56, September 22, 2011 (UTC) :::You do realise that unless the Second lifts his hand, the only part of him that you can see is his face right? Going from what was said about the clan, the most logical bet would be to list him as a user. You're assuming it has to be water that they turn into or even that what he's using isn't water just because it was likened to oil. You can again use Shikuro and Torune from the Aburame clan as prime examples and apply that here with Capt'n Awesome.--Cerez365™ 17:05, September 22, 2011 (UTC) ::::I'm not talking about what the substance is, I'm talking about the fact he doesn't turn into any liquid. If it was oily hydrification technique, I'd agree with you, but there's no sign of that. Oh yea, and the brothers have their cloths liquify too, so it would show. I think you're being awfully eager to count two techniques as the same when they haven't actually been shown to operate in a similar way at all, and 'turning into water' is something we would've seen with all the sand crushes he's been in. Unless we're told that all members of the clan have the technique, and I don't think we have, just that the clan has that technique, then Mizukage simply hasn't shown Hydrification.ZeroSD (talk) 17:18, September 22, 2011 (UTC) :::::What are you talking about? Mangetsu literally has water dripping off him the same way that the Second does so does that mean he's not using the technique? His clothes aren't turning into water either water is just dripping off him and every time Suigetsu has used the full Hydrification technique he's ended up naked. The databook entry on the Hōzuki (i'm assuming it was taken from Shounensuki since I remember him being the one to tell us that it was named a clan) says members of the clan can turn themselves into a liquid form.--Cerez365™ 17:35, September 22, 2011 (UTC) :::::: No, Mangetsu has water dripping off of him (in a way that's draw unusually too; the borders of his face and pants flow directly into the drop unlike normal where drops are drawn outside a character's normal outline, such as is done with both Mizukage and every other character who gets wet) *and* his hand is literally flowing with fingers in inhuman ways. Mangetsu's only shown it a little, but he's still shown actual transformation. Also, if Mangetsu is merely dripping, that'd just mean he wouldn't have hydrification either. :::::: Hydrification is the turning of oneself into liquid as described in that entry. We don't give people jutsu listings for simply 'almost having something/having something similar'. Someone has hydrification or they don't. If someone doesn't transform, they don't have the jutsu. ZeroSD (talk) 04:13, September 23, 2011 (UTC) :::::Just like you accuse others of being awfully eager to count the two techniques as the same, you disregard it just as quickly. Yes, you're at least correct when explaining that Hydrification is the turning of oneself into liquid as described, but the extent of the transformation isn't limited to just a full body one, it could simply be a finger as it is in this case. Look again at page 9, you'll clearly see the contour of his finger bleed into the small trail of water just like Mangetsu's drips do, of course his finger isn't as deformed and thus the effect is less obvious but regardless, the same effect is still displayed. Also, concerning why we don't see him 'turning into water' when he is attacked, you do realise that sand is an opaque material and the Mizukage's real body is only directly attacked once. So, unless during this one example Gaara chose to crush him in a very unusual manner, there's no real way in which we could observe the liquefaction of his body. As it stands, there is more evidence pointing towards the possession of the Hydrification technique, rather than to the contrary. Blackstar1 (talk) 08:45, September 23, 2011 (UTC) :::::: "Just like you accuse others of being awfully eager to count the two techniques as the same, you disregard it just as quickly." That's because burden of proof is always on proving someone has a jutsu. That burden hasn't been fulfilled. He's neither been shown using it nor are clan jutsu automatic to all clan members. "you'll clearly see the contour of his finger bleed into the small trail of water just like Mangetsu's drips do, of course his finger isn't as deformed and thus the effect is less obvious but regardless, the same effect is still displayed." Mangetsu's hands were actually deformed, Mizukage showed *no* deformation, merely the creation of liqud. "you do realise that sand is an opaque material and the Mizukage's real body is only directly attacked once." There was *no* signs of his body turning to liquid. He didn't flow out. His body wasn't "crushed but ok" at any point. It remained in human shape 100% of the time. :::::: To make this clear, you've shown plenty of evidence he *may* have hydrification. But that's not how we handle things on this wiki, and the jutsu he has shown has effects unrelated to hydrification anyway. ZeroSD (talk) 22:22, September 24, 2011 (UTC) :::::Firstly, I understand all too well about the burden of proof and how this wiki operates but to discount or disregard evidence, simply because of a belief that it isn't entirely irrefutable, isn't the best stance to adopt either. Yes, Kishimoto doesn't have any character explicitly state that the Mizukage possesses hydrification and yes, any one singular piece of evidence would not constitute as enough verification either, for many of the reasons that you yourself have provided, but the combination of evidence present demonstrates a clear intention by the author to infer that the Mizukage does indeed possess the technique. ::::::1. The Mizukage is a member of the Hōzuki Clan - The hydrification technique is said to be an ability that belongs to the clan in the same respects to how the Nara Clan possesses the Shadow Imitation Technique, and all previously known members of the Hōzuki demonstrate the technique. Does this mean the Mizukage has the technique? No, but it does make it highly unlikely that he doesn't. ::::::2. The Mizukage produces water directly from his body, seemingly without the use of hand seals. - For a water release technique, this is a very rare occurrence that hasn't yet been observed outside the hydrification technique. Could another technique make this possible? Yes, but none that we are currently aware of could. ::::::3. The Mizukage's finger deforms slightly when using the Water Gun Technique - The deformation isn't very apparent, that's a given, but it is there none the less. Otherwise the Mizukage has no reason to assume his liquid form, aside from being potentially crushed by the sand but as the sand itself would obscure us from viewing this; it's rather a moot point on whether in fact it does or does not occur. :::::If you could just for a moment observe the evidence in full, instead of concentrating on each individual point, you might understand why your opinion is shared by a very small minority on this occasion. In spite of this, I still your respect your position and if there was more evidence to the contrary, I may have even shared it but as there isn't, I believe that currently it is correct to list the Mizukage as a user. Blackstar1 (talk) 01:11, September 25, 2011 (UTC) ::::::I understand your position, but the thing is, 1, 2, and 3, none of them contain the actual primary ability of Hydrification technique, namely- transformation into water. Creation of water is a lesser ability than transformation into it (similarly, young Konan could make paper but only older Konan could become it). You have a nice case for it being *probable* that he has hydrification, it wouldn't shock me if it was later revealed, but we simply don't work on 'they probably have a jutsu' here, and the fact of the matter is it is not a jutsu he has been shown to have. You shouldn't be focusing on my evidence to the contrary, so much as the fact that the evidence for is merely 'probable' and not 'confirmed,' and it is the policy of Narutopedia to not include jutsu until they're confirmed.ZeroSD (talk) 12:56, September 25, 2011 (UTC)